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posted by [personal profile] mmoa_writes at 08:15pm on 01/01/2007
Had a good time, actually. I must admit, that the more of these things I go to, the more I become aware of the fact that I am more than a little anti-social, a bit of a loner. But fair enough and no matter - this is my last year with all my chums so I'm determined to go to as many parties as I am invited to. University will be a much easier time of residing in the library/laboratories until the lights go out.

Parties with those crazy guys are brilliant though. I mean, where else could I have a fellow fansquee about certain philosophers/scientists whilst someone is vomiting in another room, and someone else is dancing crazily like a zombie with electrodes implanted in it's rotting limbs?



Following from an interesting conversation I was having with Poppy.

I used to admire agnosticism for all the wrong reasons. I found that, being the early relativist that I was, in the face of arguments for a/pan/theism/deism etc. it made sense to simply take the intelligent stance of saying one doesn't know and can therefore hold no belief that can be labelled as any of the above.

But then I cam across one strand of the agnostic argument that even if there were a God, one wouldn't be able to know that there was.

Hm.

Now, I can understand if one were to argue that at this present time, it may well be impossible to establish what sort of God, if any, there may be one. Maybe we don't have the right sort of instruments, maybe we haven't been able to make the right sort of mental conjectures. However, I don't quite understand that all the arguments for and against the existence [of any] God* can only lead to one taking the only logical, ie agnostic, approach - the works of the many philosophers (Spinoza principally) on the ontological question point to telling us, maybe not whether God exists or not, but what sort of God, if any, could possibly exist. The famous and infamous arguments that have raged for millenia on both sides, could be used to establish at least that much.

As for the existence of God itself...

Science, or at least, the study of the Universe, can help us there. This isn't so much to do with my general geekish over-appreciation of the scientific arts, but simply because that any deity in question, by it's very nature, is something that can be found. Whether the gods of the old pantheons, or the Jehovah so many of us are familiar with - all of them have properties which can be identified by scientific means.

Mainly, essentially, because they exist. If anything exists, then it can be found by means of specific investigation. It isn't a question of the old excuse that the gods go by rules of their own - those rules will be as much a part of nature, albeit a part that we as humans cannot partake of (not that that is anything new: I'm still a little peeved that I can't see using UV light...), as the rules that govern the mundane. We can still find them, is my point.

But then, I'm biased. We 'pantheist atheists' think we're so smart...


*I may as well specify, that by 'God' I do of course refer to each and every deity and supernatural force that has ever, or could ever exist. It's the Hellenist in me.



Sometimes I feel a little bitter being bound by the customs and traditions of the Igbo, as much as I rejoice in them. I am, of course, feeling a little angry anyway, so that no doubt has something to do with it... but I hate the way my father insists on the standards of a much twisted and perverted culture, from us his children, whereas he himself (as the all knowing patriarch) seems to be exempt from them.

But then, he is generally an appallingly rude man, and I am furious with him and with that, just about everything he represents.

*sighs*

My Godmother came round for lunch today which was nice. My parents spoiled the occasion, as ever, but ah well. It was good to see her here - she is the greatest.
Music:: Lady Sovereign: 9 to 5
There are 6 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] ekzept.livejournal.com at 02:31am on 02/01/2007
Mainly, essentially, because they exist. If anything exists, then it can be found by means of specific investigation. It isn't a question of the old excuse that the gods go by rules of their own - those rules will be as much a part of nature, albeit a part that we as humans cannot partake of (not that that is anything new: I'm still a little peeved that I can't see using UV light...), as the rules that govern the mundane. We can still find them, is my point.
that's a really interesting point. the counter from the religious folk might be called the Ploy of the Incredible Shrinking God. this remarkable Deity is there, deeply connected and involved with the physical universe, until, of course, you look at the Deity or the Deity's work with scientific instruments. at that point, the evidence of the Workings of the Finger of God disappears. so, like, is the God one of those entangled quantum variables, like momentum and position? or energy and time?

for if the Deity is not physically coupled to the universe, um, what Point is It? and if It exists only as an Object of adoration and belief, what and why does it precisely matter what form such an Object takes? and in that case, oughtn't there be an economics or at least a utility theory of religion: which form of Deistic invention is the most beneficial for people to believe in? clearly, that determination should have psychological input. and, if it does, and given that psychologists are, for the most part, a representative for reality to counter most people's fleeing of it, perhaps the answer is that the best Deity is in fact none.

 
posted by [identity profile] mmoa.livejournal.com at 01:10am on 04/01/2007
LOL - The ISG, I like it.

Anyway, yes, I tend to find that religious folk don't realise the implication of that sort of argument. It's a little like the oft-quoted 'Well, I believe God could have made the world in six days, but he didn't, he created it and everything else through the processes revealed through science...' to which one can only ask, "Well, why didn't he take the six-day option then?"

They don't seem to realise that scientific discoveries do not point to an alternative route God could have taken, but the only route that he is capable of taking (and of course I don't mean as in, God could only have ever made what we observe now, as I'm not too impressed with that strand of determinism, but in lieu of the supernatural vs natural methodology).

Will remember ISG, though.
 
posted by [identity profile] georgiaporgia.livejournal.com at 09:19pm on 09/01/2007
I suppose that as I was the person in the bathroom, my dancing was not that of an electrocuted zombie? *hopes fervently that this is true*
 
posted by [identity profile] mmoa.livejournal.com at 10:54pm on 14/01/2007
Oh no my dear - you were specifically not dancing at all, if that makes any sense...
 
posted by [identity profile] georgiaporgia.livejournal.com at 05:40pm on 15/01/2007
You mean I was attempting, and failing?
*cringes*
Yeesh

But then again, I guess you mean I was the former 'someone'? heheheh
 
posted by [identity profile] mmoa.livejournal.com at 11:17pm on 15/01/2007
LOL

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