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posted by [personal profile] mmoa_writes at 01:52am on 16/04/2007
Francis Pryor has an interesting theory that Engand was never invaded by the Anlgo-Saxons, but rather, that there was a gradual shift of English allegiances and trade links which invited the Angles and then the Saxons to our shores. Veer interesting - the archaelogical evidence points to a mixing pot of Roman and Anglo-Saxon cultures, rather than a bloody onslaught of Fresian invaders. Truth, as they say, is always stranger and far more complex than fiction.

Furthermore, the influence of the Celtic tongue can be seen in the fact that subsequent forms of English and eventually, modern English, places more emphasis on word order than other Germanic languages. It's wonderful to think that this language is a result of people making mistakes with the lingua franca of the day, be it Celtic, Latin, Anglo-Saxon or Norman.

And Bede is just propaganda. But I have a soft spot for him, so I'll refrain from going further. Essentially, the Roman Christians were so dumbfounded by the presence of an altogether more sophisticated religious system (more akin to Celtic Christianity) that they made up a load of disparaging nonsense about Anglo-Saxons. Much of what he wrote about the 'heathen' practises were of course incredibly biased (typical of continental Christian attitudes) and much of what he implied about the Celtic Church... well... technically, according to Bede, it didn't exist.

*

Had a thoroughly decent hour and ten minutes with my darling athenethequeen, spent having deep and meaningful conversation about religion, atheism, politics, family, sexuality and ... strange mind patterns. And drugs: essentially, all the things worth talking about. It was one of those conversations that I wish had been taped by a mysterious M15 agent, if only so that I could write an essay or two, or just have fun musing over.

*

I feel as if I ought not to be admitting to this, but I really want to go and see 'Sunshine' and '300' in the cinema. The onply problem is that I can't find any adequate disguises, or people willing to go with me...

*hints at ungrateful friends*

Ah, well.
There are 5 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] athenethequeen.livejournal.com at 01:23pm on 16/04/2007
Sunshine and 300, for shame flo. I shake my head at you. Truce, it was an excellent conversation, I feel we should have had a transcript of it and sent it off to the government with all our suggestions for making England more ecologically sound. Ditto sent it off to all atheists and people in those religious circuses in America. Sorry I am unavailable for outing soon as am buried in a pile of work a mile high. Sighs. Movies alone are sometimes quite fun though. xx
 
posted by [identity profile] glowering.livejournal.com at 04:51pm on 16/04/2007
Sunshine's dead good.
 
posted by [identity profile] alagbon.livejournal.com at 07:06pm on 16/04/2007
It's wonderful to think that this language is a result of people making mistakes with the lingua franca of the day

I've always thought post-Norman Conquest English was kind of a creole; the ordinary (illiterate) Englishman would have kept on speaking the older, more Germanic form at home but the Norman nobility would deal with him in a frenchified pidgin (word order substituted for case endings, lots of relexification, etc.) which somehow became the standard, probably because the Normans were the ones calling the shots...
 
posted by [identity profile] mmoa.livejournal.com at 10:58am on 17/04/2007
And also the new Norman nobility often intermarried with the old Saxon nobility, so that standardisation of the pidgin Norman-French, is even more likely.

Going even further back in time, though, I have always been puzzled by the Celts. They didn't have any writing of their own (????) and although there are Roman attempts to spell Celtic words using the Latin alphabet, I am unsure as to whether thisis enough for us to make any decent speculations about the Celtic language. That was why the Celtic influence on the Germanic language of the Saxons fascinates me so much. It's like "At last! An ancient language that [might have] made do without cases!"
 
posted by [identity profile] alagbon.livejournal.com at 09:57pm on 17/04/2007
There was a primitive Celtic writing system, although it was pretty much used for epigraphy and thus yields annoyingly little useful linguistic data; modern Welsh lacks case, though (for which my poor, tired brain is eternally grateful) so there may have been a similar lack in the ancient Celtic languages.

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