posted by
mmoa_writes at 02:02am on 15/11/2007
There are very intelligent people out there who have rather silly ideas about a genetically modified future for humankind.
One of my (least) favourites is the old 'people will only want perfect children' line. In itself, this isn't actually such a bad thing and noone seems to be able to tell me why it is a bad thing to want perfect children, but they still insist on spewing this out at me, with a concerned shake of the head as they do so. Maybe it's the idea that if people conceived imperfect children, they would abort them, but then, by that time we would have the technology to make them perfect and hey presto, no abortion!
Or do they mean that because only the rich would be able to afford such treatment, the lower-classes would feel inadequate and anort any obviously imperfect babies, in order to be on equal terms with the elite? Perhaps they would, but somehow I doubt it. Lower-classes are actually proud of being lower-class (shock! Horror!). Just as some parents really don't want their child to go University (because they didn't and it worked out alright for them, huh!) or to eat 'rabbit food' that would eventually ensure their child live to say, 60 at least, or to enjoy classical music and go to the theatre, it wouldn't surprise me if the lower-class actually take their non-GM selves as a point of pride.
The middle classes would just squirm uncomfortably.
But actually, I don't think people are actually thinking to that extent. So what do they mean by the desire for perfect children as a critisism?
Is it... the fear that all children will end up looking the same? First off, again, it has to be explained why this is bad (don't get me wrong, it's an unattractive future, but not necessarily bad) and secondly, it seems highly unlikely that every single person means exactly the same thing when they say they want a 'perfect' child.
Some want a child who is gregarious, and others, one that is thoughtful. Some cheeky, others shy. Even if we found that we could never engineer personalities, I doubt that all GM children will even look all the same. I, for example, happen to find dark skinned children utterly entrancing, especially when paired with green-hazel eyes (a mix I have actually seen). Most Nigerians, however, actually find lighter skinned, dark eyed children more attractive, but not too light or they might look like an albino (which has connotations of leprosy for most West Africans). I'm sure there's someone in Abuja now, who's dreaming of bearing an albino baby girl. Even against the backdrop of a culturally accepted notion of beauty, you can still get the cultural pariahs who hanker after something different.
In fact, I propose that we would see a future where children are genetically modified for novel features, rather than in an attempt to ape some stock idea of beauty.
And in this supposed future where everything can be modified after birth, what would really be the point of going through the extra expense of genetically modifying your child before birth?
Until we define what perfect means, I think we should stop using it in criticism. Just a thought.
Is it... fear that parents will only want super-smart/genius kids?
Geniuses are actually pretty useless. I'm not sure if anyone's realised this, but they are. What we really need, and have only ever needed, are clever people, but not geniuses. In today's world, we have no real use for the genius: the computer has taken over calculation, the Internet/library system for data storage. Even the highly intelligent, apart from back rubbing in their MENSA clubs, are not really doing what one would think is deserved of their mental 'capacities'. They are not, in short, out there ruling the world or advising politicians. Geniuses are often at a handicap because they cannot be moulded into a particular, or several particular (?), use. They come already formed. Clever people are more malleable and hence more useful: they have mental potential which true geniuses lack.
By the time humanity is in an age where we can genetically farm super-humans, we would have realised this. Why bother engineering a math genius when a computer chip in the brain can transform you into the next Euclid? Why would a parent want a genius for a child anyway? Well, even if they did, I cannot say that it would even be a large percentage of the future parent population would do so, so that argument flies out of the window as well.
Is it... fear of the unnatural?
This is the most fun of the arguments because it illustrates the base hypocrisy of humanity. When people talk about GM as unnatural, I wonder if they have pets, or eat farm reared animals or live in a city or any man made construction, or wear complex clothing. Interfering with genetics, with what nature has made, is what makes us Human. Being unnatural is what makes us Human. We think up ethics and morality and religions and philosophy and politics and aesthetics. We have absurd fashions and fetishes that we live and die by. We have manners and taste. We have elegance.
We know that the supposedly simultaneous reponses of desire and so on are little more than us actively selecting which partner we would rather have children by. So, even naturally we are trying to control the genetic heritage of our offspring, it's just that nature is so goddamn inefficient.
Maybe it's just that which terrifies people; turning all that wonderful sex and stuff into efficient mechanised processes (because all that thrusting isn't already: I mean come on, we even lubricate on demand...)
But I don't see why it has to be like that. I mean, we're not simple robots or machines. We can make new rituals and religions. Hell, that's what we do as a matter of course.
A little more imagination. That's all it takes.
One of my (least) favourites is the old 'people will only want perfect children' line. In itself, this isn't actually such a bad thing and noone seems to be able to tell me why it is a bad thing to want perfect children, but they still insist on spewing this out at me, with a concerned shake of the head as they do so. Maybe it's the idea that if people conceived imperfect children, they would abort them, but then, by that time we would have the technology to make them perfect and hey presto, no abortion!
Or do they mean that because only the rich would be able to afford such treatment, the lower-classes would feel inadequate and anort any obviously imperfect babies, in order to be on equal terms with the elite? Perhaps they would, but somehow I doubt it. Lower-classes are actually proud of being lower-class (shock! Horror!). Just as some parents really don't want their child to go University (because they didn't and it worked out alright for them, huh!) or to eat 'rabbit food' that would eventually ensure their child live to say, 60 at least, or to enjoy classical music and go to the theatre, it wouldn't surprise me if the lower-class actually take their non-GM selves as a point of pride.
The middle classes would just squirm uncomfortably.
But actually, I don't think people are actually thinking to that extent. So what do they mean by the desire for perfect children as a critisism?
Is it... the fear that all children will end up looking the same? First off, again, it has to be explained why this is bad (don't get me wrong, it's an unattractive future, but not necessarily bad) and secondly, it seems highly unlikely that every single person means exactly the same thing when they say they want a 'perfect' child.
Some want a child who is gregarious, and others, one that is thoughtful. Some cheeky, others shy. Even if we found that we could never engineer personalities, I doubt that all GM children will even look all the same. I, for example, happen to find dark skinned children utterly entrancing, especially when paired with green-hazel eyes (a mix I have actually seen). Most Nigerians, however, actually find lighter skinned, dark eyed children more attractive, but not too light or they might look like an albino (which has connotations of leprosy for most West Africans). I'm sure there's someone in Abuja now, who's dreaming of bearing an albino baby girl. Even against the backdrop of a culturally accepted notion of beauty, you can still get the cultural pariahs who hanker after something different.
In fact, I propose that we would see a future where children are genetically modified for novel features, rather than in an attempt to ape some stock idea of beauty.
And in this supposed future where everything can be modified after birth, what would really be the point of going through the extra expense of genetically modifying your child before birth?
Until we define what perfect means, I think we should stop using it in criticism. Just a thought.
Is it... fear that parents will only want super-smart/genius kids?
Geniuses are actually pretty useless. I'm not sure if anyone's realised this, but they are. What we really need, and have only ever needed, are clever people, but not geniuses. In today's world, we have no real use for the genius: the computer has taken over calculation, the Internet/library system for data storage. Even the highly intelligent, apart from back rubbing in their MENSA clubs, are not really doing what one would think is deserved of their mental 'capacities'. They are not, in short, out there ruling the world or advising politicians. Geniuses are often at a handicap because they cannot be moulded into a particular, or several particular (?), use. They come already formed. Clever people are more malleable and hence more useful: they have mental potential which true geniuses lack.
By the time humanity is in an age where we can genetically farm super-humans, we would have realised this. Why bother engineering a math genius when a computer chip in the brain can transform you into the next Euclid? Why would a parent want a genius for a child anyway? Well, even if they did, I cannot say that it would even be a large percentage of the future parent population would do so, so that argument flies out of the window as well.
Is it... fear of the unnatural?
This is the most fun of the arguments because it illustrates the base hypocrisy of humanity. When people talk about GM as unnatural, I wonder if they have pets, or eat farm reared animals or live in a city or any man made construction, or wear complex clothing. Interfering with genetics, with what nature has made, is what makes us Human. Being unnatural is what makes us Human. We think up ethics and morality and religions and philosophy and politics and aesthetics. We have absurd fashions and fetishes that we live and die by. We have manners and taste. We have elegance.
We know that the supposedly simultaneous reponses of desire and so on are little more than us actively selecting which partner we would rather have children by. So, even naturally we are trying to control the genetic heritage of our offspring, it's just that nature is so goddamn inefficient.
Maybe it's just that which terrifies people; turning all that wonderful sex and stuff into efficient mechanised processes (because all that thrusting isn't already: I mean come on, we even lubricate on demand...)
But I don't see why it has to be like that. I mean, we're not simple robots or machines. We can make new rituals and religions. Hell, that's what we do as a matter of course.
A little more imagination. That's all it takes.
(no subject)
I disagree so much. Okay, it's fair perhaps that using the word 'perfect' is a little pointless. But in this situation that you've described where the rich would change their children and the less well off just wouldn't want to, surely that's still going to create a two-tier society? Where one group have less inclination to disease, at the very least, if not a higher intelligence, a longer life-span, more physical fitness than the other. The problem with that is just that if you have two groups of people who are so seperated the 'better' one is quite likely to try and subjugate the other.
At the moment, though, I realise that's just a future possibility. Mostly I object genetic engineering of this kind because it just 'doesn't feel right' to me...
I would keep going but I have to go to work! *late*
(no subject)
I see what you've described happening already. The super-rich can afford plastic surgery and avant garde medical treatment and private physiotherapists. Even the 'quite rich' can afford to get a private yoga instructor if they cared to. We see the lower classes as the unhealthy, the disease riddled obese vandals already. By the time the technology to engineer children from scratch even arises, the vast majority of diseases will surely be as insignificant - and occasionally risky - as the common cold is today (she says...).
One group may well be more inclined towards disease, but surely not by very much, particularly if the future governments retain their socialistic impulses of today where vaccination abounds and the increase in what is considered basic treatment increases.
And why only two tiers? That seems rather simplistic to me. We're forgetting that the upshot, the probable conclusion, of all this is the creation of different human species. Admire Alduous Huxley as I do, I've always found his future strangely static - it's too simple. Yes, subjugation has been a dominant factor in human history, but so has liberation. Fashions in social mores will wax and wane as they do today. Perhaps the genetically modified super-beings will develop a society where they actually disdain the labour of the 'less advanced' lower classes, and become entirely self-sufficient, which they theoretically could.
But yeah, I think the real problem is that for some people, it just doesn't seem right, and I really do respect that, particularly as I hold the opposite view very strongly myself. I still think the option should always be there, and that we should turn this into a really serious debate, rather than the Tabloid-style hysterical ranting that has always been at fore.
(no subject)
I do have to say something about your point below though:
"There is the frightening scenario that by engineering one's child from within the womb, you could have a child that would be the ultimate sports player (for example) and never realise that it is not living it's 'own' life but the desire of it's parents. But would that be such a bad thing if the child is not aware of this anyway (and is happy, of course)?"
Yes, yes it would, and I've just put my finger on my bad feeling, too. It's the whole idea of parents choosing what their children will or will not be. I don't think we have any right to say that this person must do this and this person must do that. Obviously someone has to be giving young children guidelines, but overall, it's not for us to force any sort of 'destiny' on anyone other than ourselves. Even if that person would be happier for it. And that includes deciding whether or not a child should be good at math before it's born.
(no subject)
That would be a concern for me, but it is less of a worry because if parents can be allowed to genetically engineer their children, then the children should also have the option of genetic modification to change what they had been given. I would think that such technology will act as an equaliser between a parents desires and a child's individual ambition.
Ideally, of course. If I ruled the world, that is.
(no subject)
And maybe that's just fine as we control our environment more and more. Maybe a new generation of exotic hothouse children isn't such a bad thing. Then I look back at pugs :P
The other concern is purely psychological. Parents already place so much fear and concern upon their children. Pre-school study clubs and in-womb lecture series or whatever. I wonder about the added pressure of 'being perfect'. Dad's constant drive for you to make the football team is bad enough, but now that he can design you for it? It'll balance out of course...everyone else's dad will design for it too...
I guess I fear the continuing erosion of individuality between generations. We already do it with education...but how far do we take placing our desires into the flesh that will carry on without us? In the end, I'm not hugely worried - 'perfect' football players will still discover the joys of blues guitar and drop everything to become a musician, storming out of the house at sixteen. 'Perfect' scientists will get caught up in online gaming and sink their GPA's.
I guess its the (incorrect) idea that we can even try to code for such complexity that confounds me. What exactly makes a 'perfect' artist? Or politician? Or any of the meaningful results of the raw material we hope to shape. It is again that mix of technology and impossible yearning for what it can't do that worries me more than the technology itself.
(no subject)
I guess I fear the continuing erosion of individuality between generations.
I have always felt that this is a natural part of human society. Continuity is always preferred, even if the occasional revolution does provide some benefit. Our appreciation for individuality is quite a modern concept and one I am pleased to have. Perhaps in the ultra modern future of transhumanist dreams, individuality would be the ultimate goal of genetic modification rather than uniformity. I, obviously, think this will be the case, but one must keep one's mind open...
Not only that, but will parental pressures really be any more influential in an age where you can change your genetic make-up and become truly individual? There is the frightening scenario that by engineering one's child from within the womb, you could have a child that would be the ultimate sports player (for example) and never realise that it is not living it's 'own' life but the desire of it's parents. But would that be such a bad thing if the child is not aware of this anyway (and is happy, of course)?
(no subject)
And I don't mean that in a pessimistic way.
As an example, as mentioned above, the idea of parents using it as an 'out' to actually parenting as an example. Quick fix thinking. Even minor changes to this effect bother me.
On the other hand, I would be open to far more extreme genetic alterations for the purposes of, say...developing underwater communities or adaptation to low-g orbit environments. In that case, the technology isn't just giving quick fixes, it's opening new challenges and opportunities. New frontiers with a clear sense of new hurdles to overcome.
I'd rather see a gilled pug-man as man develops underwater cities than another 'perfect' blond blue eyed sports player :P
I hope that made sense.
(no subject)
(no subject)
I agree when you say that humanity just isn't ready for it yet. I'd like to think that as our technological capabilities increase, we become more enlightened in respect to such ideas about perfection and non perfection. If we don't, and remain with all the prejudices of the present, we probably will never be able to exploit technology to such an extent anyway.
I hope...